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Nirali Kitebein Projects
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M. Sajjad Haider



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Nirali Kitebein Projects Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

As some of you may know, we had recieved a project proposal from Nirali Kitabein quite a few months back. That proposal was rejected as it required a very high amount of funding. Hence, a revised project proposal has been submitted by Mr David Masih, the details of which are in the attachement. Kindly, review the document and discuss your views on the forum, so we can decide if we want to further access this project. Thanks.

Sajjad Haider


Last edited by M. Sajjad Haider on Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tarim Wasim



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Last Visit: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 160
Location: San Francisco
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sajjad,

Thanks for posting this. I'm glad NK continues to desire a relationship with ADP, since I think they are doing interesting work.

It appears that they are asking us to fund a subset of the previously evaluated bonded labor project: documenting the number of kilns in two districts. My concerns on this are along the same lines as the ones we had with Zarar Shaheed:

1. Impact may be contingent on future funding, and we are unlikely to have any visibility into this aspect when we make a decision. There is thus a real chance that our funds create no tangible improvement.

2. The NGO may not be a responsive partner if we're such a small piece of the of the overall funding pie. Ironically, this is most likely if #1 is not true - ie, the NGO is having some success in getting large donors.

I would suggest asking David what they'd do with this two-district database if they did not get any other funding. Ideally, they'd be able to demonstrate results through a full-cycle pilot at a small scale, which would then help them get funding for a nationwide rollout.

Also, if there's any way we can help put them in touch with larger donors, we should certainly do so. I will check with Netaid to see if they'd consider NK.

-Tarim
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M. Sajjad Haider



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarim,

Thanks for your helpful not. I will speak with Mr Masih and make some suggestions that you have given as well discuss how and where he sees NK going in the future.

Any output from Netaid will be highly beneficial cause i do not foresee ADP being a part of the extensive projects that Mr Masih has in mind for NK. Thanks

Sajjad
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M. Sajjad Haider



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoke with Mr Masih and he gave me an elaborated view on what he expects to gain from ADP.

He now realizes that his project ambitions for NK are far too big for ADP to fund, hence he is looking for help from other sources as well. He actually got in touch with another 'unnamed' funding organization which is helping in the first phase of thier project i.e. the building of better storage areas and some other construction work in thier main office. They offer to help more once this phase is completed.

Mr Masih hopes that if ADP can provide funds for the revised project submitted a month back which entails research and enumeration of brick kilns, they can create a report on what work needs priority and with this report they can ask other organizations for further support.

He also asked me if we could get in touch with other funding organizations in the US which he says are likely to help out in this project. He will provide contact information to us within a few days. Thats all the information for now.

Im sure thier must be questions about this project and NK, feel free to ask them so i can help clear things out.
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Justin Stone



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Last Visit: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sajjad,

I know you are busy with the earthquake relief efforts, but we have just received a query from David Diwan Masih at Nirali Kitabein. I will forward it to you seperately and respond myself by late this afternoon, letting him know about our current status.

In the mean time, your last post indicated that some kind of contact info would be forthcoming from him. More importantly, I don't think we have addressed the two questions raised by Tarim in relation to the modified project scope:

1. Impact may be contingent on future funding, and we are unlikely to have any visibility into this aspect when we make a decision. There is thus a real chance that our funds create no tangible improvement.

2. The NGO may not be a responsive partner if we're such a small piece of the of the overall funding pie. Ironically, this is most likely if #1 is not true - ie, the NGO is having some success in getting large donors.

I'm sure there will be other questions, but addressing these early in the process seems critical. Please let us know where this stands, and when you will be able to follow up with them.

Best!

Justin
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M. Sajjad Haider



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin,

I got the mail as well and was quite surprised by it. From my talks with Mr Masih last month he had said that he would be forwarding the contact info of donors that he knows of who have funded him in the past from the US. something Tarim was then willing to look into. Also, i had asked for a further breakdown of the project costs since his project proposal only has a final figure and he was to email me those. Niether of those got to me.
Ill give him a call later in the day, today, and find out what the updates are. also ask him the specificites of the project

As for the queries that Tarim and you had mentioned, well

he essentially wants to use the support that ADP gives as an indicator to other donors he is in touch with that help is coming from different sources. This gives confidence to those donors about being closer to reaching the objectives of the project as a whole since these unnamed donors also feel the project in its entirety is beyond thier means.
so our help in this part project wont just be supporting this part of the project but indirectly effecting other parts of it as well.

p.s. sorry for the somewhat lenghty post, i didnt have the time to summarize it (i always wanted to say that Very Happy )
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Tarim Wasim



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Last Visit: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 160
Location: San Francisco
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am tempted to decline early on this. I think there's a very strong chance that our funding will not create any measurable impact within a reasonable timeframe. The reason we would give tp NK is that ADP does not usually fund small pieces of larger projects.

On a separate note, we should at some point someone compile a list of US foundations that have funded Pakistani projects so that we know where to refer queries of this nature. Anyone want to take this on? =)
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M. Sajjad Haider



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree. As much as i understand NK's need and potential future prospects from such a project, i realize how limited ADP's impact will be on a project of this scale. It is my feeling that NK probably expected a lot from ADP and have not realized the limitations we have in terms of funds.

As for having foreign donor lists, that would be of great help in cases where we have to decline projects. Wish i could help but i think this would be best handled by somebody in the US.
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Justin Stone



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Last Visit: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I don't mind funding a small piece of a bigger project, as long as the value is clear and the outcome supports our development mission.

In this case, the lack or responsiveness may be indicative of the level of importance placed on this component. It sounds like ADP would just be used to reassure other donor orgs that it's a collaborative effort. Sajjad, I would go with your judgment on this...

~Justin
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M. Sajjad Haider



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive asked Mr Masih to write up the impact of this project on the bigger picture for NK. Based on what we hear from him we can pursue matters further.
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M. Sajjad Haider



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Masih has sent the following email and attachment in regards to my request for more details about the project.

Thank you very much for so kindly ringing in connexion with the email I had sent to many of the colleagues on the ADP forum. You have asked for two things:
(a) Contact information about various donors in the USA
(b) A write up to show how the process of enumeration of brick kilns will fit into wider picture of the bonded labour.

I am sorry that I had forgotten about (a) above. As far as (b) this appears before this message.

I shall be grateful if an early decision is taken. Lets now make the ball rolling. I would like in anticipation to thank you in person and the team of ADP.

May God continue to bless and use you for good causes.

Yours sincerely

David Diwan Masih
General Manager
Nirali Kitaben
Lahore, Pakistan
Phone 5824536, Fax 5800191
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M. Sajjad Haider



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Last Visit: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further update on the project

heres the breakdown of the budget required

Enumeration of Brick Kilns and the Bonded Labour Attached to them

- Phase One -
BUDGET

Workers: Rs 5,000 x 4 persons x 4 months
80,000.-

Travelling (Motorcycles, public transports, taxis etc)
120,000.-

Computer
35,000.-

Printing of Stationery
10,000.-

Administration
10,000.-

TOTAL
255,000.-

RUPEES TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY FIVE THOUSAND ONLY


Prepared by

Habal Felix ACCOUNTANT

David Diwan Masih GENERAL MANAGER
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Khurram Jamali



Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Last Visit: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 78
Location: Beijing, China
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As treasurer, some of the breakdown figures seem grossly large to me. For example, Travelling expenses of Rs 120,000 for the four months mean Rs30,000 a month or assuming a 5-day work week, Rs 1,500 a day! Maybe its just me, but that seems a little large.

Can we get an explanation as to why it will cost that much each day that they work on this project? Or are there specific trips that will be very expensive? Can we get the email address of Mr. Felix so that I can chat with him about his basis behind the costs that he has quoted?
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Tarim Wasim



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Last Visit: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 160
Location: San Francisco
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys,

Before we ask for any more information, let's decide where we stand on the threshold issue, which is whether we would support an enumeration project with no immediate impact. I personally am against it, but would like to hear from anyone in favor of spending $3-4k on a data-gathering initiative given the other kinds of options out there.

If Mr. Masih had a) secured funding from a larger donor contingent on this milestone, or b) had a plan to show tangible impact by running this is a end-end pilot, I would be open to funding.

-Tarim
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Adnan Khalid



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Last Visit: 14 May 2009
Posts: 67
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think that we already know enough to decline this proposal.
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