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Murree Watersupply Project

 
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Khurram Owais Shah



Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Last Visit: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 45
Location: Karachi
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:03 am    Post subject: Murree Watersupply Project Reply with quote

Project: Water supply scheme
Organization: Sanj Welfare Society
Location: Murree, Punjab
Overview: The proposal submitted by Sanj Welfare Society aims to establish a water supply scheme in Sanj village near Murree to benefit approx. 150 individuals (20 families), providing them with clean water for drinking and other purposes. At present, these people have to fetch water on a daily bases to fulfill their requirements.

Project Team: Rahbel Rahman, Kamran Niazi, Arzak Khan, Sahr Said


Last edited by Khurram Owais Shah on Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rahbel Rahman



Joined: 20 May 2008
Last Visit: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Karachi
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:36 am    Post subject: Project Evaluation: Sanj Welfare Society Reply with quote

After reviewing the proposal, I have three concerns:

(i) The mission statement of the organization states that it wishes to improve the "socio-economic status of the community; improve health condition of the community"- given that although 200 households are availing the benefits through the Sanj Welfare Society, i would first evaluate whether "clean drinking water" is actually being delivered to this set of individuals before anything else. I dont mean to be cyncial but i think its best to evaluate how much gas is utilized to boil water, what are proceedures taken to purify water. How much time takes women to purify the water? Secondly, although the welfare society says there is an increased trend of kitchen garden, how much does this gardening generate income or sustain the communitt livlihood's. The purpose behind this point is to conduct due diligence of the organization to ensure that it is adhering to its mission statement and is effective in its outreach.

(ii) ADP contribution according to the proposal would be material costs, given the extreme weather in the winter, we need to ensure whether the material purchased is sustainable able to wear all kinds of weather. Importantly, we need to determine whether the pipes wont rust, because subsequently this would be a health hazard. Although it says that the community would be responsible for maintainence, I am not sure what the economic status of the community is to be able to put in new pipes, in case the pipes would rust.

(iii) We need to determine what the engineering costs and consultancy fees would be and who the PMC have hired., and whether they are efficient or not. I think its important that we take this into consideration to ensure that this project would help the community in the long run. Knowledge about the right material and how to proceed with the project would require technical expertise, funds have not been allocated in the budget.
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Arzak Khan



Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Last Visit: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1
Location: Pakistan/Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After evaluating the proposal I have the following questions which need to be addressed.

1. Is the NGO applying for funding for the same project from multiple institutions?
2. What type of water pipes will be used?
3. What sort of water tanks will be constructed? Is it overhead or underground construction
4. How much area will be the water tank built on and who will own the land on which this water tank will be constructed?
5. What’s the distance of the proposed water tanks from the water reservoir and how will it be connected and does the water coming from the source have any purification mechanism.
6. What’s the background of the local community member who will supervise the construction work? Is he qualified enough to oversee the construction of the water tanks.
7. What’s the size of the water tanks?
8. How will the water reach the households, will it be pumped using a motor etc.

Regards,

Arzak
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Kamran Niazi



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Last Visit: 14 May 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Peshawar/Lahore
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:18 am    Post subject: Internet Search about the Applicant Reply with quote

I have been doing some research on the Society and cannot find any information on the Net. Have found out that the Japanese gave them 4.18 Million Rupees for the Project.

http://www.pk.emb-japan.go.jp/NEWS/2007/November/23%20Nov.htm

http://www.nni-news.com.pk/archive.php?track=November%202007&Location=22nd

http://www.nni-news.com.pk/lastNode.php?transfer=yes&secure=yes&pointer=19077

Waiting for a response from the Embassy
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Rahbel Rahman



Joined: 20 May 2008
Last Visit: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Karachi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:13 am    Post subject: Sanj Welfare Society Reply with quote

Thanks Kamran for the update.

(1) I would have to agree with Azrak that we need to inquire about the multiple source of funding. Personally, I think we need to further dig up on how Rs. 4.18M from the Japanese Embassy has been spent. I gather from the proposal that the funding historically given to the Sanj Welfare Society was utilized for constructing two middle schools and 4 mosques, along with providing water to 300 households. I am not sure how much the European Commission has suplemented the Japanese Embassy's funding. It appears that the European Comission/TVO has provided funds to facilitate drinking water for 300 households. I think TVO would be the best source of contact to establish whether Rs. 3 lakhs would assist the 20 households that are remaining from their project.

(2) Questions that need to be asked to the NGO are:
-what material will be used for the pipes- are they malleable to sustain all kinds of weather type?
-Will the extension of pipes to the 20 households affect the watersupply of the existing homes?

(3) We need to assess/ establish whether this society will receive more funding from international organizations. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the purpose of ADP to provide funds to those organization that may not receive international funding. However, we need to balance this against the fact that this society has been endorsed from international organizations and may indeed be doing credible work.
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Rahbel Rahman



Joined: 20 May 2008
Last Visit: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Karachi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Sahr's view on the proposal:

After taking a look at the proposal I have a few queries pertaining mostly to the funding structure/use:
1) I know we have done a bit of research on the NGO, but I feel that we should also do a thorough market check on the officers working for the NGO and on this project- I know we have a list of the officers in charge listed in the proposal, however, I feel we need to know a little more on their background/previous experience/credibility etc. We also need to know who else is involved besides the people listed.
2) Also, I feel it is imperative to know which bank has the NGO’s main operating account. Maybe we could get a check from the bank regarding the monetary behavior of the NGO. If not, we could request the NGO for its bank statements for the last three years. They are asking us for funding, so I feel they shouldn’t have any problems showing us any supporting document we need. I am emphasizing the need to see statements so as to ensure where the NGO’s money is going, and the frequency of transactions. Who the main signatory on the account is i.e who is managing the NGO’s funded resources and allocating them in an efficient manner. Is it one person or multiple people? Just to make sure how many people have access to the NGO’s funds. What does the person managing the funds do in relation to the NGO and its projects?
3) How would the ADP structure funding to the NGO work- Will we pay them in installments? Or give them one up front payment. If we do give them an up front payment, what control do we have in place if the project doesn’t work out the way the proposal/NGO plans it to?
4) Should we follow a payment scheme? In the sense that should we divide the funding into distinct phases so as to monitor the NGO’s progress, paying them as and when the work in a specific phase of the project is completed. That way we will have more direct control over ADP’s funding, ensuring that it is spent in an efficient, timely and useful manner.
5) I feel a Field visit is absolutely essential- We need to go and see for ourselves what the NGO has already done as far as the water supply project is concerned. We need to talk to the villagers themselves about if the project actually helped them the way the NGO claims that it has? Did it “considerably” improve their health/standard of living etc- if not, what can be done differently/improved.

Let me know what you guys think-
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Rahbel Rahman



Joined: 20 May 2008
Last Visit: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Karachi
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:15 am    Post subject: Sanj Welfare Society: consolidation of the analysis. Reply with quote

Attached is a consolidation of the analysis, along with questions that need to be asked to the NGO. Still awaiting a response from Ahmed Nawaz
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Natasha Qureshi



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Last Visit: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Ithaca, NY
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feedback from the EC members (Tarim Wasim, Rabia Chaudhry, Natasha Qureshi):

The questions and concerns that the project team has listed are very relevant and critical, so great job!!

After going over the proposal we have prioritized the list of questions we would like to be answered. The high priority ones are critical and will enable the project and EC team members to make an initial go/no go decision for the site visit. The site visit will then make the implementation details clearer. Please do contact the NGO, either by email/phone, to get as many of the following questions answered (esp. the high priority ones) and do add them to the project summary so the entire project and EC team can read it before the conference call on June 22nd.

High Priority:

1. How critical is the need for such a project:
- How do the 20 households get the water currently? What is wrong with the status quo?
- What is the income level / occupation of the 20 households? Are the affluent enough to pay for the water themselves?
- Any data showing that the new scheme makes a big difference in the 200 HHs it currently provides water to (e.g. water quality tests)?

2. What are the "recurring costs" that have been mentioned in the budget? Do they refer to repairs / maintenance? Are they annual?

3. Who will be responsible for the maintenance and operation of the scheme, once it has been completed?

Medium Priority:

4. Why are the EC and JE not willing to fund the additional 20 HHs? Has the NGO applied for alternate funding sources?

5. Project details
- Original water source (ground water/ surface water)?
- How sustainable is the source (how long can it last for and remain clean)?
- How clean is it (quality tests)? Does it need to be filtered?
- Why are the distribution tanks needed?

6. Financial details
- How much is annual repair & maintenance? Will user fees cover the entire amount?
- What is the life of the materials being used?
- Question for project team: How should we assess whether cost estimates are reasonable?

7. Understanding the NGO, their background and contacting references

We look forward to reading the response you guys compile and to speaking with you all next week!

Thanks[/list][/code]
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Rahbel Rahman



Joined: 20 May 2008
Last Visit: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Karachi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:20 pm    Post subject: Answers given by the NGO Reply with quote

Answers to the questions posed to the NGO.
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Rahbel Rahman



Joined: 20 May 2008
Last Visit: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Karachi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12 year Report of the Sanj Welfare Society.

Last edited by Rahbel Rahman on Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Rahbel Rahman



Joined: 20 May 2008
Last Visit: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Karachi
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:07 am    Post subject: Questions that still need to be asked to the NGO Reply with quote

Subsequent to perusal of the answers provided to us by Mr. Babar, I have identified a few questions that need to be asked to the NGO:

(1) How far are the houses from which 20 of the households collect water?
(2) Given that the income level of the households are very low, what measures are taken to ensure that the community will pay for recurring cost of Rs. 105,500?
(3) Any data that can support the fact that 400 households that are supplied with drinking water have been impacted? Before and after figures may assist us in our judgement
(4) What are the qualifications of the Project Management Committee and the caretaker?
(5) Given that TVO funding policy does not provide funds to the same NGO for the second time, then how come TVO has funded Sanj Welfare on numerous occasions - Vocational Training Center (1998); Repair of Shingle Road (2001-2002); Water Supply Scheme (2003-04).
(6) What measures are taken to ensure that storage tanks are providing clean drinking water? Details on water quality tests.
(7) If water is supplied for a limited time during the day, what gurantee is it that people would not still have to fetch water?
(Cool Do costs for an engineer from Murree account for the recurring costs?
(9) Clarification on Recurring costs- does it include manpower, and consulting fees? what about maintainence costs and the payment to the caretaker?
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Rahbel Rahman



Joined: 20 May 2008
Last Visit: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Karachi
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:26 am    Post subject: Response to queries Reply with quote

Sanj Welfare Organization has responded to the queries.
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Tarim Wasim



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Last Visit: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 160
Location: San Francisco
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Folks,

Thanks for the call today and for all your hard work on this project. I'm proud to see that the team has really made an effort to come to the right answer here.

I have been giving some more thought to whether Rs. 28k per household is a reasonable amount to spend on providing running water (of which ADP will contribute Rs. 15k/HH) under this scheme. One of the alternatives that we did not discuss and which could be a lot cheaper is to construct a tube well for these 20 houses.

Based on past ADP projects, the cost of constructing a tube well used to be Rs. 50-75k (varies by terrain, could be higher with inflation now) and it lasts for several years. That would suggest that these houses can get convenient access to clean water for Rs. 3-4k/HH, or 7x less than the proposed scheme. While there are of couse some add'l benefits to running water (e.g. flush systems for toilets), a well-located tube well could solve most of the hardship for the women & children.

If a tube well is not an option (e.g. if the water table is too low), it still raises the issue that ADP could help 3-4x as many HHs for the amount of donations we'd be giving to SWS.

Thoughts? If people agree, I would like the team to discuss with SWS whether a tube well is a better solution to address the problem at hand.

Best,
Tarim
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Kamran Niazi



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Last Visit: 14 May 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Peshawar/Lahore
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:47 am    Post subject: Alterntative View on SWS Reply with quote

All,

I talked to a guy, who was involved in setting up water projects in Abbottabad / Hazara Region. His view point was 30K Per household was reasonable. I asked someone else (a friend refered him) also for 5 minutes of his time to answer such questions, unfortunately the feedback of that guy was, "No Money - No Information".

In this case, if EC thinks that ADP should fund a tubewell, then I think ADP should consider funding a small reservoir as well as purification plant / purification practices implementation also.

I have two major concerns with funding a tube well:

a. If they set up a tubewell (a deep one hopefully) for 23 houeholds, then they would have to use either electricity or a generator. With the gas prices being what they are, generators should be out of question. I don't know about exact power situation prevailing in Murree, but I assume that, they are going to be facing lots of energy problems. I was told that even the Presidency had load shedding issues (this was last year). So the running costs are going to be quite high. We are just providing the initial costs, who will provide the other running costs?

b. I don't know the depth of the water table or the basis of the 50-75K Number or what impact weather conditions (it does snow in Murree - rarely, but still) would have on the operations of the tube well. I am assuming that these guys must have done some study and considered digging a tube well before coming up with this plan.

c. Finally, as a matter of principle, we should avoid telling people what they should do. If we don't like their idea, then I would prefer declining the proposal. Please read the article below:

http://www.dgroups.org/groups/km4dev/index.cfm?op=dsp_showmsg&listname=km4dev-l&msgid=850759&cat_id=11846

Regards

Kamran
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